Aaron, Jules. Date: December 12, 1983. Interviewer: David H. DeVorkin. Auspices: SAOHP. Length: 1 hr.; 13 pp. Use restrictions: Permission required for access.

Reviews Aaron's (b. October 3, 1921) career at AFCRL as a research physicist (1946-55), Chief of Radio Astronomy Branch (1955-72), and at AFGL as Chief of the Trans-ionospheric Propagation Branch and Senior Scientist at the Space Physics Lab (1972-81). Topics discussed include significant aspects of his role in the use of V-2s by Marcus O'Day for upper atmosphere research; his contact with O'Day and Menzel and the establishment of Sac Peak; the research mission of AFCRL; AFCRL's early interest in solar studies; and a comparison of present day research activities at AFGL and NRL.

TAPE 1, SIDE 1

1     Marcus O'Day and his interest in V-2's; testing the Luxembourg effect

1-2     Joining the Navigation Laboratory after WWII

2     Attempt to change emphasis of Navigation Lab from operations support work to research

2-3     O'Day, Menzel the beginning of Sac Peak

3-4     Advantages and disadvantages of location of Sac Peak

4-5     Donald Menzel - Masters work under; trip to Sac Peak with; personality and interests

5-6     Experimentation with V-2's - Heinz Fisher and John Castelli

6     Research character of AFCRL - emphasis on support of Air Force missions

6-7     Changes in personnel policy of AFCRL

7     Scientific interests at AFCRL - internally motivated vs. directed tresearch

8     Problem of turnover of military administrative personnel

8     AFCRL early interest in solar studies

9     UAL

9     Contact with NBS and University of Colorado

9     Withdrawal of Air Force support for moon and planetary studies

10     Educational background - theses on low-frequency fluctuations in earth's magnetic field

11     Comparison of research capabilities at AFGL and NRL in ionospheric propagation

TAPE 1, SIDE 2

11-12     Research at NRL - applied vs. pure research

12     Outside contracting - NRL compared to AFGL; AFGL; at Sac Peak

13     John Evans and Sac Peak

13     Summary

Ball Brothers (Reuben H. Gablehouse and Fred Dolder). Date: January 13, 1982. Interviewer: David H. DeVorkin. Auspices: SAOHP. Length: 2.5 hrs.; 46 pp. Use restrictions: Permission required to quote, cite or reproduce.

Principally covers Ball Brothers' contracts for and development of the early OSOs from the late 1950s to the late 1960s. In this period Dolder served as Program Manager for OSO. Significant topics include evolution of the original proposal; the relationship of John Lindsay of Goddard (the contracting agency for OSO) with Ball Brothers; design changes relating to pointing controls, telemetry and structural configuration; loss of the AOSO contract; and Ball Brothers' work on Skylab.

TAPE 1, SIDE 1

1     Introduction; explanation of which existing division was the Ball Brothers Research Corporation

2     Aerobee pointing control

2     The bent ogive and reasons for its adoption

2-3     Some corporate history; Solar Azimuth Pointing Platform (SAPP)

3-4     Purpose of SAPP

4     John Lindsay's visit and OSO

4-5     Gablehouse's arrival to work on OSO

5     OSO proposals

5-6     Problems of space environment

6-7     Description of "figure 1" - pointing control

7     Model of "figure 1" - Mrs. Lindsay

7-8     Communications equipment design

8     The OSO Proposal; more on Lindsay

9     OSO instrumentation

9-11     Explanation of informal contract behavior; changes in contract

11     Changing OSO's life span; similarities with biaxial pointing control

11-12     Instruments in the ring

12     Changes in design

13-14     Designer Myron "Red" Poyer; gas bottle placement and changes

14     Problems with weight and inertia

14-15     Launch date slippage; John Lindsay's involvement

15-16     Budgeting and contract negotiations

16     Development of OSO's "arms"

16     Fitting OSO into its launch vehicle

17     PI contacts

17     Instrument manufacture

TAPE 1, SIDE 2

17-18     OSO sequencing in construction and contracting

18-20     Changes in design after OSO-1 - telemetry: digital vs. analog; ground station: transmission problems

20     OSO structural changes: description of azimuth casting

20-21     Starfish and OSO

21     Gravity gradient effect and spin problems

22     Tape recorder description, changes from OSO-1 to OSO

22-23     Problems with the second OSO launch

23     Rocket explosion; deaths; account of accident

23-24     Dolder's career; Advanced OSO

24-25     Views on the advanced OSO contract; OSO contracting

25-26     Changes at GSFC; Thole; OSO contract competition

26     Changes in OSO at GSFC under Thole

26-27     AOSO proposal; republic contract deficiencies for AOSO

27-28     HAO coronagraph for Apollo

28     Cancellation of AOSO; origin of HAO sun pointer

29     Thole's present position: MX antenna

29     Skylab & OSO funding; Skylab mission

29-30     George Mueller and Skylab; Orbital Workshop concept development

30     Men in Skylab; astronaut training

31-32     Picture book of Skylab; ATM

32     ATM pictures; H-Alpha, UV photos: ATM wooden mock-up

TAPE 2, SIDE 1

33     Air Force Gamma Ray instrument and satellite P-78

33-34     NRL instruments on P-78; P-78 purpose; microstrip antenna (P-78)

34-35     Other Ball Brothers instruments

35     Marion Fulk; lubricating bearing

35     Testing vacuum chambers and bearings; documentation of engineering performance

36     Dry lubricant; Marion Fulk; lubricating schemes

37     Kohlsman - OAO's startracker; OAO bearings controversy: changing from dry to wet lubricant for OAO

37-38     Lubrication in AF meteorological satellite

38     ATM

38-39     Announcements of opportunity and Ball Brothers role; GRO (Gamma Ray Observatory)

39     Space Telescope contract

39     Galileo contract; Gerry Gilland; hiring astronomers

40     On scientists: why they have no staff scientists

40     OSO-1 people to talk to

41     OSO-1 launch test; OSO-3 testing

41-42     Perception of early days

42-43     Harvard College instrument (OSO-2) failure (Goldberg instrument)

43     Procedure for using scientific instruments in orbit

43-44     Skylab; scanning gratings for spectrophotometer

44     Design structure and prototypes for skylab spectral equipment; who did what

45     NRL UV camera; design of UV camera

45-46     NRL cameras in orbit

46     Ball Brothers & NRL cameras; Ek Lemberg, designer

Ball Brothers (Otto Brothers, Bartoe, Fred Dolder, Reuben Gablehouse, R.A. Gaiser, R.C. Mercure). Date: July 26, 1983. Interviewer: David H. DeVorkin. Auspices: SAOHP. Length: 2.5 hrs.; 121 pp. Use restrictions: Not established.

Provides a broad-ranging discussion of Ball Brothers space research activities since its inception in 1956, and of the contributions of Bartoe, Dolder, Gablehouse, Gaiser and Mercure. Topics reviewed include the origins and establishment of Ball Brothers Research Corporation; early involvement in space research; the contract for pointing controls with AFCRL in 1957; the evolution of pointing control accuracy; the evolution of expertise at BBRC in optics and servo-mechanisms; and BBRC contract work on the OSO series, including the evolution of the original proposal with Goddard and the loss of the contract for AOSO to Republic.

TAPE 1, SIDE 1

1     Gaiser - educational and work background

2-3     Libby Owens Ford and coming to Ball in 1955

3-5     Work on weighting device/control cell

5-8     Recruitment of University of Colorado people to work on control cell problem

8-10     Recruitment of Stacey and others

11     Beginning of Ball Brothers Research Corp (BBRC) 1956

11-12     Control cell in relation to other BBRC products

13-15     Space research work at BBRC - initial projects and proposals

15     Micrometeorite proposal

15-17     Keeping BBRC afloat

17-19     Contract for pointing controls with AFCRL, 1957

20-24     Proposals from NASA build pointing control orbiting vehicle in 1958

24-25     Russ Nidey and problem of "laying out"

25-27     Bartoe - educational and work background at Upper Air Lab/Research Service Labs

27-30     Air Force contract to produce a pointed coronagraph in 1948

30-32     Work for Stacey in 1956 - control cell and proposal for aspect detection system for GE

32     University of Colorado pointing control tooling patterns

TAPE 1, SIDE 2

32-35     Lunar landing optics project (1958)

35-36     Operation of V/H meter

36-38     Redesigning the pointing control developed by the University of Colorado

38     Bent-ogive

39-40     Balloon platforms - SAPP

40-41     Development of technology in BBRC projects - optics, servo-mechanisms

41-42     Optical Platform Alignment Linkage - OPAL

42-45     Origin of OSO proposal

44-45     Telemetry for OSO

46     AFSAT

46-47     Contract with Lockheed

47-48     Contact with other aerospace corporations, 1958-9

48-49     Grumman and OAO

49-52     OSO and triaxial platform

53-56     OSO contract - Republic and BBRC

56-57     OSO-8 contract - Hughes and BBRC

57-59     OSO-7 compared to earlier OSOs

59-60     OSO-8 contract award

60-61     John Foley

TAPE 2, SIDE 1

62-63     Cost

63-64     Hughes "stealing" of "Vac coat" process

64-65     Mercure - educational and work background

65-67     First spectroheliograph - involvement with University of Colorado group

67-68     Mechanical design of spectroheliograph

68-69     Single grating stigmatic spectrograph

70-72     Stacey and BBRC

72-73     First employees of BBRC

73-75     Mercure's early responsibilities at BBRC

75-77     Godfried Rosendahl and reflecting spectroheliograph

77-78     Instrument design work

78     Photoelectric recording

79-81     High energy physics instruments

82-84     Diversification into instrument work

86-88     Original OSO proposal, 1959

88-91     Evolution of original OSO proposal

91-92     Ritch control system

93-95     Equipment obtained by BBRC from other corporations

TAPE 2, SIDE 2

95-96     Quality of BBRC personnel

96-97     Organizational structure and project management

97-100     Matrix management and NASA

101-102     Matrix management at BBRC

102-103     Cost accounting system at BBRC - work breakdown structure

103-109     Bid/no bid Criteria

109-111     Importance of having a "champion" at headquarters

111-112     Evolution of accuracy of pointing controls

112-114     Design changes that increased accuracy

114-115     Torque motors

115-116     OSO-7 stability

116-121     Pointing contracts after OSO-7

Baum, William Alvin. Date: January 12, 1983. Interviewer: David H. DeVorkin. Auspices: SAOHP. Length: 1.5 hrs.; 26 pp. Use restrictions: Public.

Surveys Baum's (b. January 18, 1924) career as a physicist at NRL (1946-49) and astronomer at Mt. Wilson and Palomar Observatories (1950-65). After sketching Baum's early life, the discussion concentrates on Baum's role in the development of spectroscopy research at NRL, specifically his work on the UV spectrum of the sun - including the first successful UV spectra of the sun. Aspects of his experience in experimentation with V-2s and Aerobees, and his thesis research at CALTECH (PhD, 1950, physics) are also explored.

TAPE 1, SIDE 1

1     Family background; college (Rochester)

1     Getting into CALTECH

2     Battling selective service; R.A. Millikan war-time at CALTECH; to the Navy

2     CALTECH rocket project; volunteering for the Navy

2-3     Other grad students with Navy; NRL contact; Mt. Wilson

3-26     NRL work

3     Basic training; in the Navy at CALTECH; NRL assignment

3-4     Fire control at NRL; computers; Optics Division, NRL

4     Move optics division; using rockets

4-5     Going after the UV spectrum; spectroscopic experience

5     Feelings about prospective UV work; atmosphere of work

6     Going to White Sands proving ground; Baird Atomic connection

6     Spectroscopic film survival and spectroscope placement; going to Baird; Tousey and lithium fluoride beads

6-7     Alternatives to lithium fluoride bead entrance bead manufacture

7     Baird Atomic costs; NRL mockups

7-8     Making the film cassette; relationship with Baird

8     Description of Baird Atomic

8-9     Pictures of June '46 launching; developing spectrographic film

9     Rapidity of whole rocket process

9-10     At White Sands Proving Ground with the spectroscope; loading the instrument onto V-2

10-11     Impression of V-2s; weight requirements

11     Balancing the V-2; description of V-2

11-12     Meetings with Von Braun; German estimate of percent of successful launchings

12     Origin of spectroscope

12-13     Problems of warhead survivability; German advice

13     First V-2 launch

13     Looking for the impact crater

TAPE 1, SIDE 2

14     Limitation of memory

14-15     First V-2 launch recollections; launch duties

15     White Sands Proving Ground visitors; competition Hopfield's instrument

15-16     First crater; putting instrument in the tail

16     Photoelectric spectra effort; NRL structure

16-17     Shuttling between CALTECH and NRL; October '46 flight

17     First successful spectra; Tousey's letter to Baum about it

17-18     Baum's graduate school ideas for solar spectra

18     Tousey seeking aid in design; R.W. Wood and J. Strong; Lyman

18-19     Lyman's ideas; Stockbarger & lithium fluoride; lithium fluoride suppliers meet w/Lyman

19     Meeting with Lyman

19-20     CALTECH; spectroscope reconfiguration; Baum's refractive instrument

20     Running out of V-2s; WAC vs. Aerobee

20-21     JPL; PhD spectrograph design; thesis advisor

21-22     Thesis administration; materials; Penn Optical

22     Thesis disruptions; NRL sponsorship of thesis

22     Baum's NRL status; Aerobee failure

22-23     Silver chloride batteries ADN Sun Follower

23     Coffee can batteries; preparations for launch

23-24     Battery activation; battery failure

24     Destruction of thesis on the pad; why no second attempt

24-25     New thesis; testing instrument

25     Test run of Sun Follower; UV transmission of lower atmosphere

26     In the service at NRL; Greenstein Contact; perception of rockets

26     Short return to NRL; off to Mt. Wilson

Behring, William. Date: April 7, 1982. Interviewer: David H. DeVorkin. Auspices: SAOHP. Length: 3 hrs.; 49 pp. Use restrictions: Not established.

After outlining Behring's (b. January 17, 1924) early interests and education, the interview analyzes in detail his work at the Upper Air Laboratory, University of Colorado, beginning in 1948, on rocket instrument design, especially on pointing controls and on spectrographs. Behring discusses the initial contract for pointing controls with AFCRL, as well as the evolution of pointing control design at UAL. The principal focus of the interview, however, is on Behring's work on the development of a solar monochromatic camera and a solar spectrograph, under the supervision of William Rense, for obtaining the Lyman alpha line of hydrogen. Design problems, the role of Rense, and competition with NRL and Tousey are discussed.

TAPE 1, SIDE 1

1-5     Family background

5-8     Early home life

8-9     Early reading interests

9-11     Early mechanical and scientific interests

12-15     Parents attitude toward education - sisters college education

15-19     High school education and work experience

19-20     Interest in astronomy

20-25     High school courses

TAPE 1, SIDE 2

26     Interest in college

27-29     Decision to attend University of Colorado

29-42     University of Colorado, 1941-1947

29-31     Major in engineering physics

31-33     Interest in electricity and in astronomy

33-39     Military service

39-40     Finishing undergraduate work

40-41     Contact with University of Colorado rocket group

41-42     Decision to go to graduate school

42-45     Purdue University, 1947

43-45     Course work; interest in spectroscopy

45     Work for the pointing control project at the University of Colorado, 1948

45-46     Primary researchers involved

46     Designing a coronagraph

47     Pretenpohl and Walz and Air Force contract for pointing control

47-48     Motivation for rocketsonde work

48-49     Rense

Bergstrahl, Jay Thor. Date: July 13, 1983. Interviewer: Joseph Tatarewicz. Auspices: SAOHP. Length: 2.5 hrs.; 41 pp. Use restrictions: Not established.

Reviews Bergstrahl's (b. August 23, 1943) early life and career as a graduate student at the University of Texas; as a National Research Council fellow (1972-74); and at JPL, as senior scientist, planetary science (1974-79), and member of the technical staff (1979- ). Topics discussed include NASA's planetary astronomy program and activities at the University of Texas McDonald Observatory and JPL Table Mountain Observatory.

TAPE 1, SIDE 1

1-4     Family background

1     Father a physicist with NRL rocketsonde 1946-50, respect for the first full earth curvature photos from V-2

2     Project Farside - 4-stage sounding rocket launched from balloon

2     1957 - Ford Aeroneutronics

2     Early 1960's NRL Nucleonics: 1st H-Bomb, Project Ivy

2     1961 - Aerospace Corporation, classified research

3     Sputnik; high school astronomy, astronomy club

4-5     Carleton College - physics major then astronomy

5     Bob Matthew, the only astronomy teacher at Carleton; positional astronomer, no astrophysics friends at Carleton - Pete Schultz (UTX then LST); Harry Hechathorn (UTX then JSC)

6-14     University of Texas, Austin, undergraduate education

6     How close, Sept. 1965

7     Description of UTX faculty - F. Edmunds; G. DeVancouleurs; H. Smith; B. Tull; T. Deeming; N. Wolfe; a. Young

8     First year graduate curriculum - Astronomical physics taught by Edwards textbooks

9     No planetary at all

9     Planetary astronomy courses available after first year

10     DeVaucouleurs as a teacher

11     Mars mapping project with DeVaucouleurs using historical observations

12     Interest in planetary astronomy

13     Active discouragement of planetary research at Carleton, passive during first year at University of Texas

TAPE 1, SIDE 2

14     DeVaucouleurs as a teacher

15-17     1966-1967 summer jobs at Ford Aeroneutronics

16     Literature searches looking for possible future directions for space science to pursue

17     Discovering planetary astronomy science via Icarus

18-23     Master's thesis at University of Texas on "nondetection" of CO2 on Mercury

18     Louise (Gray) Young, thesis advisor with laboratory expertise in CO2 on Mercury

19     JPL astronomers at Texas; R. Schorn

19-21     Development of 107-inch

21     Joining AAS and presenting first paper on the nondetection of CO2 on Mercury

22-23     Joining DPS; a pre-inaugural meeting at Austin of the Division for Planetary Sciences (DPS); reasons for its formation

23-27     NASA-Texas Planetary Astronomy Project

24     Management structure

24     Transmitting NASA's planetary needs down the line into actual astronomical work

25     Specific projects

25     Running the 107-inch and 82-inch telescopes 24 hours a day, observing Mars at night, Venus by day

25     Dear Colleague' letters

26     Shift from inner to outer planets, from planets to Comets as examples

26     US participation on Giotto

27     Differences between NASA and NSF programmatic interests

TAPE 2, SIDE 1

27     Question of how to change programmatic emphasis

28-31     PhD thesis at University of Texas

28     Choosing a topic; outgrowth of Ford Aeroneutronics literature search; H. Smith

29     Talking with Trafton; meeting more JPL people

29     Development of synthetic spectra computer program

30     Connection to Goddard Institute for Space Studies

30     Government laboratories and the direction of research

31-41     JPL

31     NRC Resident Research Associate at JPL

32     Structure and activities of JPL astronomy group in 1972

32     24-inch Coudè telescope

33     Bob Norton - advisor; Schorn on Venus; Young on Venus; Margolis on lab spectra of methane, ammonia, re: Jupiter; Newburn getting more interested in comets; Bergstrahl hired as outer-planet person; Glenn Orton far infrared

34     Organization of the optical astronomy group

35     How Table Mountain Observatory is run

36-37     Preston Committee on Space Telescope - 1975-76

38     Nancy Roman made it clear that ST would be used for planetary work - NASA HQ policy; O'Dell set the slewing and tracking rates for Halley's Comet

39-41     How Bergstrahl's experience in science management has affected his opinions of how planetary astronomy is best done

Bergstrahl, Jay Thor. Date: August 1, 1983. Interviewer: David H. DeVorkin. Auspices: SAOHP. Length: 3.5 hrs.; 63 pp. Use restrictions: Open.

Concentrates on Bergstrahl's work at NRL (1946-56), principally as an experiment integrator for rocket flights, with additional coverage of his later work at Ford Aeroneutronics and Aerospace Corporation. Besides discussing the procedures and problems of integrating experiments, Bergstrahl relates his work at NRL on early attempts at high altitude photography, on rocket impact point prediction systems, and on cosmic ray balloon research. The discussion of his years (1956-62) at Ford Aeroneutronics examines his work on lunar and planetary studies, including work on the Ranger Hard Lander.

TAPE 1, SIDE 1

1-5     Family background, early schooling and interests

4     Undergraduate work at Carleton College - physics major

5-7     Graduate work at University of Minnesota

5     Decision to go to Minnesota

5     Course work

6     Effect of WWI on dissertation research - Manhattan project and additional teaching

7-12     Commission in the Navy

7     Completion of Master's degree

8     Attending radar school at Bowdoin College and MIT

8     Duties with Navy Liaison group

9     Conclusion of WWII and assignment to Patent Office

9-10     Recruitment by NRL

10-11     Discussion of NRL projects during recruitment

12     Decision to join NRL

12-43     NRL

12     Interest in upper atmosphere research

12-13     Cosmic ray group atmosphere research initial duties; heat analysis of re-entering V-2s and experiment integrator

TAPE 1, SIDE 2

13-14     Deciding where experiments would go on flight

14     Construction of warheads

14-15     Recovery of warheads

15     June 1946 flight; loss of spectrograph

15-16     Decision to place spectrograph in tail section rather than nose cone

16     Work on photo cell telemetry

16-17     Other methods of data recovery; ejection of container

18     Use of the term "warhead"

18-19     Responsibilities at White Sands - instrument integration and check-out

19     Pre-launch check-out procedures

20-21     Responses to pre-launch problems - case of acid tank accident

21-22     Investigator's attitude toward instrument failures

22-23     Atmosphere at White Sands - relationship with GE and Army

23-25     Photography work on V-2

25     March 1947 flight

26     Meteorological interest in results of photography

27     Subsequent photographic flight

TAPE 2, SIDE 1

27-28     Work with Milton Rosen on Viking; safety system for impacts

28-29     Development of rocket impact point prediction system

29-30     Use of Navy binocular system and analogue computer to predict impact

30-31     Clyde Tombaugh

31     Articles on V-2 work

32     V-2 launching cycle

32-33     Krause's departure from NRL in 1947

33-34     Richard Tousey

34-36     Cosmic ray balloon work

36     Attitude of University of Minnesota cosmic ray group toward rocket vs. balloon research

36-37     Access to rockets

37     Integration of instrumentation in Aerobees

37-38     Checkout procedure

38-39     Results of attempt to measure cosmic ray diurnal effects

39     Understanding of what cosmic rays were

40     Nuclear weapons research

40-41     Nuclear reactor at NRL

41-42     Decision to switch from rocketsonde division to nuclear physics division

TAPE 2, SIDE 2

42-43     Decision to leave NRL in 1956 to work at Ford Aeroneutronics

43-55     Ford Aeroneutronics

43     Proposed nuclear reactor

44     Missile programs

44-45     Ranger Hard Lander

46     Dinsmore Alter (see page 52)

46-47     Lunar research with M. Johnson, R. Havens, I. H. Bifford

47-48     R. Havens

48     Competition among aerospace companies

48     Lunar and planetary expertise, 1958-60

48-49     Study of lunar craters - vulcanism versus impact theory

49-50     Receiving the Ranger contract

51     Members in research group

51     Getting work for his group - need for outside contracts including classified work

51-52     Scout launch vehicle

52-53     Dinsmore Alter; attitude toward space programs

53-54     Decision to work for Aerospace Corporation (1963)

54-55     Problems with proposal system and grantsmanship

55-60     Aerospace Corporation

55-56     Positions held and responsibilities

56-57     Work on ten year planning document

TAPE 3, SIDE 1

57     Navstar

58-59     Starfish and nuclear environmental studies

59-60     Planetary radar studies

60     Environmental work on post-OSO Air Force satellites

60-61     Assessment of career

61     Photographs and archival records

62-63     Jay Bergstrahl

* Bleach, Richard. Date: May 11, 1984. Interviewers: David DeVorkin and Joseph Tatarewicz. Auspices: SAOHP. Length: 2.25 hrs.; 74 pp. Use restrictions: Permission required to quote, cite or reproduce.

After describing his upbringing and undergraduate education in physics at Renesselaer, Bleach (b. June 7, 1944) reviews his subsequent enrollment in the PhD program in physics at the University of Maryland. He then discusses his work at Goddard while in the PhD program, including initially developing solid state detectors for cosmic ray experiments; moving to an X-ray astronomy group headed by Dr. Elihu Boldt; developing and testing proportional counters in balloons, rockets, and satellites; use of mechanical and modulation collimators in the counters; and interaction with other research groups. Bleach next describes his thesis on Cygnus X-1 and work at NRL after completing his PhD program, including initially building and conducting experiments with detectors for the gamma ray group under HEAO, and subsequent move to the laboratory diagnostics area in which he still is involved.

TAPE 1, SIDE 1

1-3     Early Life

1-2     Family background and education

3     Interest in physics and astronomy

4-10     Rensselaer Polytechnic Institute

4     Choosing a college

5     Interest in engineering

6-7     Courses at Rensselaer

8-9     Special interests; reading Sky and Telescope magazine

10     Decision to go on to graduate school (PhD)

11-38     University of Maryland /Goddard

11     Choosing University of Maryland

12     Teaching assistantship at University of Maryland

13     Summer job at Goddard, for Frank McDonald, working with solid state detectors

14-15     Courses and departments at the University of Maryland

16     Join the Goddard X-ray astronomy group; graduate research leading to a thesis

17     Activities at Goddard; analyzing data

18     Characteristics of the X-ray group

19     Specific experiments and interest of the X-ray group

20     The isotropic background problem

21     Elihu Boldt's theories for gas in the universe

22-24     Contact between the various astronomies (infrared, radio, X-ray, UV, etc)

25     The idea of an Institute of Astronomy

TAPE 1, SIDE 2

26-27     Sharing of observation time through computer automation

28-30     Building proportional counters for rockets at Goddard

31-32     Thesis: "A Study....of the Cygnus Region of the Sky"

33-35     Multi-wire large area proportional counters, mechanically collimated

36-37     Modulation collimators versus slaat [!] collimators

38     Availability of assistantships at Goddard

39-74     NRL

40     Job options with a PhD

41-42     Gamma ray as astronomy from balloon experiments under Jim Kurfess

43     Cost of rocket flights at Goddard

44-46     Frank McDonald; the atmosphere at Goddard

47-50     Observation of Cygnus X-1 by the Goddard group by Uhuru

TAPE 2, SIDE 1

50-52     Publishing the Cygnus X-1 paper; different versions of how Cygnus X-1 was discovered

53-54     Giacconi; decision to go to the NRL gamma ray group

55     Problems with the HEAO experiment

56     Developing multi-wire proportional counters

57     Talbot Chubb at NRL

58-60     Building scintillation counters for balloon experiments

61-62     Relationship between balloon, satellite and rocketsonde research and experiments

63     NASA high energy groups

64-65     HEAO cutback; removal of the satellite gamma ray experiment from HEAO

66     Decision to switch to laboratory work at NRL; doing X-ray diagnostics of laser fusion plasmas

67-69     AS & E; determining characteristic lunar surface composition by X-ray

70-71     Laboratory diagnostics

72-74     Future topics of discussion

Brunk, William. Dates: July 21 and August 9, 1983. Interviewer: Joseph Tatarewicz. Auspices: SAOHP. Length: 5 hrs.; 84 pp. Use restrictions: Not established.

Traces Brunk's (b. November 24, 1928) career in engineering at the Lewis Flight Propulsion Laboratory, NACA (1954-8), Lewis Research Laboratory, NASA (1958-65), and NASA HQ (1965- ), beginning with an overview of his family background and education, and his work in supersonic aerodynamics for NACA. The interview primarily examines Brunk's role in and perceptions of the development of planetary ground-based astronomy during his tenure at NASA HQ as Program Chief of Planetary Astronomy. Topics discussed include CALTECH's 60-inch telescope; problems and techniques in ground-based observation; the Planetary Patrol program at Lowell Observatory; relations between NSF and NASA in the support of ground-based astronomy; and general perceptions of NASA's role in ground-based astronomy.

    July 21, 1983.

TAPE 1, SIDE 1

1-2        Brunk's biography. Education and upbringing.         Rejection from

     Naval Academy and acceptance at Case         Institute of Technology.

3-8        Chronology of courses taken by Brunk at Case. Graduate         work as

      research assistant in astronomy. Make-up of         Case astronomy staff.

8-10        Brunk's decision to work for NACA Lewis rather than get         his

     Ph.D (1954) and how he still keeps contacts at         Case.

11        Decision to complete Doctorate at NACA's expense (1956-        1957).

TAPE 1, SIDE 2

12        NACA/Lewis interest grows in space exploration.

13        NACA's change to NASA and their realization of what         little

     background they had with space, usually their         work was with propulsion.

14-16    Differences between scientists and engineers. Brunk's         responsibility to educate NASA lab in space         exploration.

     NACA's policy/process of tedious review         of all publications and lectures. Brunk's enjoyment of         the education process at NACA with Lewis and Goddard.

17-18    Return to Case in '58 to further astronomy education.         Beginning work with NASA for Cleveland space exhibit.         Exhibit

     to include educational series for high school         students.

19        Education materials used in exhibit.

20        Limitation on possibilities to get a degree in         planetary

     astronomy due to lack of literature and         school offering it.

21        Problems with high school lectures because of lack of         materials.

22        Exhibit put at World Fair, New York in 1964 and Brunk's         responsibility to train technicians for exhibit and his         interaction with the public.

23-24    NASA's support of Kuiper's Lunar and Planetary Lab and         Brunk's

     unhappiness at Lewis due to lack of support in         astronomy. Nancy Roman's invitation to come to NASA.

TAPE 2, SIDE 1

24-26    Confusion with '61 and '62 recall. Brunk's involvement         with

     astronomy subcommittee. First acquainted with         Nancy Roman. Factors that pushed Brunk to work for         NASA.

27        Positions of Urner Liddel and Oran Nicks, and Moore         when Brunk

     was asked to join.

28        Hired as staff scientist for planetary astronomy         program at

     NASA.

29        Social activity in NASA. Concerns in NASA's early         literature

     on planetary exploration, and Homer Newell         and Oran Nicks work to update NASA's program.

30        Brunk's decision to leave Lewis, and Urner Liddel's         presentation of their planetary astronomy program,         August 1964.

31        Various grants for telescopes being built around the         world.

32-33    Reasons whey Brunk became a staff scientist. Breakdown         of the

     astronomy program. Arguments as to wheterh a         large telescope will to a better planetary job.         Questioning of legitimacy of NASA getting into         extensive ground-based astronomy.

34-35    Pursuing the construction of astronomical facilities         and should

     NSF or OMB be backing the project and using         various university programs for facilities.

36        Building the 107-inch telescope at Arizona, Kuiper's         telescope.

TAPE 2, SIDE 2

36        IRTF Facility, it is the only one that NASA owns.

37-38    JPL pressure for a large planetary telescope for         telescope time

     they were not qualified to get at other         places. JPL's contact with Cal Tech to build them a         telescope.

39        "Critical Need for Telescopes" memo from Newell to         Seamans to

     justify Cal Tech telescope.

40-41    Brunk's association with John Salisbury regarding         Cloudcraft

     and the Air Force Cambridge takeover.         Setting up standards for classifying observations to         get funding.

42-43    Brunk's attempt to get materials that he was not         involved in

     when he came to NASA and the difficulty due         to lack of organization in the files.

    August 9, 1983

TAPE 1, SIDE 1

44-45     Learning telescope construction and contract monitoring         (1964).      Sub committee speciality.

45     Requirements for Planetary observing time and         difficulties in

     obtaining it. Mars observing mission         (Voyager).

46-47     Justifications for building a telescope at Cal Tech,

          and problems with funding, and NASA requirements for

     funding. Facility versus Instrument.

47     Astronomers and geologists' differing needs.

48-49     Lunar geology program, and getting people interested in         lunar

     studies and Brunks responsibility to pull people together for ground-based planetary astronomy (1964). Funding instruments and personnel. Study of Mars terrain.

50     NASA's proposal to design a spacecraft that could land on the

     Mars surface and difficulties with various proposals.

51     Solving the effect of solar lines to study a planets atmosphere

     and conference held that solved problem. Discovered new technique of using pressure sensitive CO2 lines.

52-53     Support from NASA for work on outer planets, theoretical work,

     spectroscopy, celestial mechanics, and imaging.

54-55     Setting priorities and funding ways to get better instruments

     to meet planetary study goals. Grants and advisory groups to

     get people more interested in lunar and planetary exploration.

56     Kuiper's arguments for a new telescope. Contract for Las

     Cruces telescope.

TAPE 1, SIDE 2

57-58     Mission versus research, confronting Congress and Scientific

     community for support for astrometry

59-61     Problems with setting photometric levels for

     spacecraft, and designing detectors. Mariner 9 program.

61     Mainstreaming astronomers for planetary astronomy.

62-63     Belton's working group. John Hall setting up a patrol. Reasons for building a new telescope, and stations where

     telescopes were set up and processing film from the sites.

64-66     Mission research from the Mars study. Edson's involvement in

     planetary research.

67     Nancy Roman's contribution for construction of telescope in

     Texas. Percentage of time used at various telescope locations, and contracts for their use.

68     Compromising mission requirements and mission needs.

69-70     NASA's decision not to build any dedicated facilities. Whitford Report, NASA, DOD, and NSF interest in astronomy.

     Bringing Frank Drake in to run astronomy program at JPL to make it the number one program and scientific community's reaction.

TAPE 2, SIDE 1

70-72     Ideas on getting scientific community interested in an

     astronomy program

72     Financial support and justifying who should build a telescope

73     Policy issues at NASA (1965)

74     Follow-up reports to the Whitford Report. Planetary astronomy versus spacecraft exploration. Establishment of telescope in Mauna Kea, Hawaii

75     NSF concerns with NASA using ground-based planetary astronomy facilities and abandoning them

76-77     Brunks involvement with NSF coordination (1964) and collaboration with Nancy Roman

78      Divisions and funding for different divisions of NASA and use of various facilities (IRTF and OAO)

79     Determining what instruments were wanted on Space Telescope

80-81     Formal relations set up between NASA and NSF on advising the Space Telescope project and meetings

82     NSF's unwritten policy of not supporting planetary work, and splitting their budget. NSF appointing an astronomy program Director, Harold Lane.

TAPE 2, SIDE 2

83-84     Relationship differences between Fleishcher and

          Mulde rs.

Code, Arthur Dodd. Dates: September 30 and October 1, 1982. Interviewer: David H. DeVorkin. Auspices: SAOHP. Length: 4 hrs.; 57 pp. Use restrictions: Not established.

Traces Code's (b. August 13, 1923) career in astronomy and astrophysics through his student days at the University of Chicago (PhD, 1950, astronomy and astrophysics); and his teaching and administrative positions at the University of Virginia (1950), the University of Wisconsin and Washburn Observatory (1951-6; 1958- ), and briefly with the California Institute of Technology at Palomar and Mt. Wilson Observatories (1956-8). The interview centers on his work in space astronomy, with emphasis on his use of an X-15 airplane for UV stellar spectroscopy, and his role in the development of the OAO series and Copernicus. Also discussed is his work with instrumentation, especially photoelectric photometry, and his theoretical interest in cosmology.

    September 30, 1982

TAPE 1, SIDE 1

1     Paternal information, father's jobs

2     Home decision to be an astrophysicist

3     Important uncle

4     Childhood; secondary education; parents views on career; radio interest

5     Navy and radio; going to college; reading about astronomy

6     University of Chicago undergraduate education

7     Undergraduate education and financial support undergraduate astronomy at Ryerson Building

8     Undergraduate continued proximity to and knowledge of reactor; astronomy major

9     Marriage; Naval Service at Radio School

10     University of Chicago Meteorology Program

TAPE 1, SIDE 2

11     Education during war in physics and matter; courses with Gamow

12     URCA process; Gamow's wide interest; Fred Haddock

13     Returning to Chicago; Kuiper; introduction to Struve; lack of undergraduate degree

14     Jesse Greenstein's solar program

15     Yerkes interest in work above atmosphere; Greenstein's V-2 experience; graduate studies at Yerkes

16     Interest in image orthicons

17     Photometry work; Yerkes management after Struve

18     Thesis with Chandra; interest in measurements; job offers; desire to go to Wisconsin

19     Going to Wisconsin; work at Charlottesville, UVA; plans for Wisconsin, early work there

20     Spiral structure of galaxies; Morgan's spiral structure work

21     Odort and spiral structure

TAPE 2, SIDE 1

22     Explaining 21cm line; instrumentation work in mid-50's automatic plate holder; Electronic in astronomy

23     Interest in image tubes; detector work; going CALTECH

24     Sputnik and astronomy; going back to Wisconsin

25     Interest in space; and Space Science board

26     Going back to Wisconsin; why space astronomy; JPL space astronomy

27     Baum's experiment to insure cosmic sky background; early proposals for research by astronomers; Wisconsin

28     Space Astronomy Laboratory; leaving CALTECH; Don Osterbrock and Wisconsin; why space astronomy

29     Early satellite plans

30     Decision to go for the UV; stabilizing a satellite with "yo-yos"

31     Orienting a spinning satellite; testing instruments on balloons

32     Airplanes as telescope mounts; X-15 UV measurements to check Friedman's halos; X-15 instrumentation

TAPE 2, SIDE 2

32     First proposal to NASA; NASA administration: platform for astronomy; X-15 and other proposals; using the X-15

34     Relation to Stratoscope; the scientific problems early plans for astronomical satellites

35     Multiple versus single instrument satellites Whipple's UV TV system and Code's UV telescope; OAO design

36     Other potential OAO experiments; OAO-A development and experiment

37     OAO 1 problems in orbit; OAO 1 death

38     Wisconsin staff graduate student involvement in space research

39     Grand Bang versus Big Bang theory Planck time

40     Symmetry breaking; advantage of Grand Bang

41-42     Inflationary stage; consequences of this view; more implications of cosmological inflation; problems with inflationary view

    October 1, 1982

TAPE 3, SIDE 1

43     X-15 program and X-15 instrumentation Astronautics Corporation

44     X-15 results, X-15 guidance, and use of results; pilots

45    X-15 flights; aborted McKay mission; X-15 modification

46     X-15 data retrieval; absolute calibrations of photometers

47     Inventing a calibration process using synchrotron radiation; calibration for rockets

48     Perception of NASA; contract problems; role in designing OAO interfaces

49     Contractors for OAO

50     Dealing with contractors X-15 model at Wisconsin

51     X-15 stabilization platforms, (where are they?); X-15 pointing controls

52     Copernicus and OAO pointing controls

53     Copernicus work load

TAPE 3, SIDE 2

53     OAO-A1 failure and its impact; getting on OAO-A1 again

54     The lure of instrumentation

55     Origins of Kitt Peak (KPNO) Space Division

56     Early plans for Large Space Telescope

57     Role in AURA and LST; next interview topics

* Conner, Jerry. Date: April 24, 1984. Interviewer: David DeVorkin, Allan Needell. Auspices: SAOHP. Length: 2 hrs., 22 pp. Use restriction: Open.

Conner relates his early interests; family background; interest in science; influential teachers; high school. Discusses Rice University; his interest in chemistry, physics and nuclear physics; graduate work at Rice; thesis; position at Los Alamos experimental physics division. Describes the Cockroft-Walton group; accelerator; switch from Cockroft-Walton group to a space physics group; Tom Bonner. Describes Sputnik era; Flying Deacon Arrow detectors; participation in Starfish; first Vela launch.

TAPE 1, SIDE 1

1     Early interest

1-2     Family background

2     Interest in science

3     Influential teachers

3-4     High school in Port Arthur, Texas

4-5     Rice University

6     Original interest in chemistry; major in physics

6-8     Navy

8     Back to Rice University

8-9     Interest in nuclear physics

9     Astronomy at Rice

9-10     Graduate work at Rice

10     Thesis

10-11     Tom Bonner

11-12     First position (at Los Alamos) in the experimental physics division

12-14     Specific tasks of the Cockroft-Walton group

14     The Cockroft-Walton accelerator; a description of the group

15     The Sputnik era

TAPE 1, SIDE 2

15-16     Switch from Cockroft-Walton group to a space physics group

16     Pressure to publish

17     Vela program discussions

17-18     Flying Deacon Arrow detectors

18     Interest in the detection of solar and non-solar X-rays

19-20     Participation in Starfish

20     Publishing X-ray data; other individuals with whom it might be valuable to talk

20-21     Important milestones; the first Vela launch

21-22     People at Sandia worth talking to

22     Change of atmosphere in going from Cockroft-Walton group to new space physics group

*Drake, Frank Donald. Date: December 9, 1983. Interviewer: Joseph Tatarewicz. Auspices: SAOHP. Length: 2 hrs.; 52 pp. Use restriction: Not established.

Surveys Drake's (b. May 28, 1930) career in radio astronomy including his education at Cornell University and Harvard University (PhD, 1958, astronomy), with emphasis on his positions at the National Radio Astronomy Observatory (1958-62) and at JPL as Chief of the Lunar and Planetary Science Section (1963-4). The interview focuses on Drake's work in planetary radio astronomy, including discussion of the astronomical community's perception of planetary astronomy; discovery that planets did not radiate as black bodies; ground based astronomy at JPL and CALTECH; and the relationship between JPL and CALTECH.

TAPE 1, SIDE 1

     Education, Cornell, Harvard, Navy

1     Electronics Officer in the Navy

2     Early interest in astronomy; Cornell professors

3-4     Building an infrared detector

5     Specification within astronomy

6     Radio astronomy at Harvard (graduate work); summer assistantship, Heeschen

7     Radio astronomy; Bok Greenstein

8     Integration of radio astronomy into a formal curriculum

9     Practical observations at Harvard

10-15     Building an infrared photometer for Miczaika; inventing "chopping"

16     Sinton; working half time with Miczaika

17-18     Discovering a bright nebula next to Gamma Cygni

19     Agassiz Station observing time

TAPE 1, SIDE 2

21-22     General attitude toward planetary astronomy

23     Early years at Greenbank, NRAO; Mayer, Sloanaker

23-30     Greenbank day

24     Measuring Venus' and Jupiter's spectrums

25     Criticism of planetary astronomy

26     Letter from Bolten at CALTECH

27     AVI's management abilities

28     Tuve, Berkner, Struve

29     Combining optical and radio facilities

30     Paper at JPL symposium on planetary radio astronomy

31-52     Jet Propulsion Laboratory

31     Megrheblian; head of Lunar and Planetary Sciences

32     JPL staff; duties

33     Budget problems; JPL/CALTECH relationship

34-36     Story illustrating JPL/CALTECH relationship

37     Story about observing time at Mt. Wilson

38     JPL/CALTECH joint publishing

39-41     Table Mountain facility

42     Noel Hinners at NASA

TAPE 2, SIDE 1

43     Hinners at NASA (continued)

44     Nancy Roman at NASA

45     Staff at JPL

46-49     Frank Gray

50     Kliore's paper on radio occultation

51     Drake's presentation to Nicks and Liddell of Kliore's paper

52     Professorship at Cornell

Fastie, William G. Date: February 4, 1983. Interviewer: David H. DeVorkin. Auspices: SAOHP. Length: 3 hrs.; 50 pp. Use restriction: Open.

Discusses Fastie's (b. December 6, 1916) career as a physicist, beginning with a position as research assistant at the Johns Hopkins University Physics Department (1941-45), as a research physicist at Leeds and Northrop (1945-51) and later as a research contract director and research scientist at Johns Hopkins (1951-68). After covering his family background and education, the discussion details Fastie's contact with Pfund and Wood, including his classified work with Pfund during WWII; and his interest in instrumentation as reflected in his work with Echelle gratings and spectrographs.

TAPE 1, SIDE 1

1-13     Early life and education

1-2     Family origins

2-3     Father's and mother's education and work

3     Siblings

3-5     Early home life and early schooling

5-6     Early interests

6-7     High school; interest in chemistry, mathematics courses

7-8     Intentions for college; family finances

8-9     Introductory college courses at Johns Hopkins Night School

9     Course work; meeting John Sanderson

9-10     Recollection of Hulburt's funeral and contacts with Hulburt

10     Interest in optics

10-11     Decision to enroll at Hopkins

11     Jobs while attending night school

11-12     Optics and mathematics courses

12     Course counseling

13-38     Graduate work at Johns Hopkins in physics

TAPE 1, SIDE 2

13     Goodnow plan

13-14     Contacts developed in the night school; Sanderson and Bearden

14-15     Course work; transition from incomplete undergraduate education to graduate school

15     Concentration in physical optics

15-16     Teaching assistantship

16     Parents' attitude towards a career in physics

16-17     Other students from the Goodnow plan

17     Support from Pfund

17-18     Pfund's background

18     Laboratory assistant for Pfund

18-19     Course work; Dieke's spectroscopy course

19     Background of R.W. Wood

19-20     Physical optics from Wood

20-22     Wood's and Pfund's relationship; security issues

21     Classified work with Pfund during WWII; infrared gas analysis

23     Pfund 's infrared gas analyzer as a portable instrument

24     Changing the instrument design

25-26     Military users of the instrument

TAPE 2, SIDE 1

27     R.W. Wood and Echelle gratings

27-28     R.W. Wood and mosaic diffraction gratings

28     Interest in astronomy

28-29     Wood and Echelle gratings

29     George Harrison

29-30     Rowland engines and Rowland ghosts

30     Astronomers' response to Echelle gratings

30-31     Tousey's gratings

31-32     Extending the infrared limit of a photomultiplier tube

32-33     Measuring air temperature with weather sonde

33-34     Infrared protective coatings and interference filters

34-35     Decision to go to Leeds and Northrop; discontinue graduate work

35-37     Contact with APL; J. A. Bearden's work

37     Work choices without a degree

38     Relationship between Hopkins and APL

38-48     Leeds and Northrop

39     Marriage

TAPE 2, SIDE 2

39     Interest in instrumentation

40-41     Research atmosphere and Fastie's approach to research

41-42     Infrared pyrometer design; importance to Leeds and Northrop business

43-44     Promotion to director of physics research lab; interest in lab work over management work

44     Ultraviolet steel analyzer

45     Need for a more efficient spectrograph

45-46     Off-axis parabola system vs. Sphere

46-47     Development of new spectrograph

47-48     Leeds and Northrop's attitude toward steel analyzer

48     Decision to return to Johns Hopkins

48-49     John Hopkins

49     Responsibilities; title

50     Working on the new spectrograph - funding, patent problems

Fraser, Lorence. Date: March 9, 1983. Interviewer: David H. DeVorkin. Auspices: SAOHP. Length: 3 hrs.; 61 pp. Use restriction: Permission required to quote, cite or reproduce.

Describes Fraser's work as an engineer and instrumentation specialist at the Department of Terrestrial Magnetism during WWII, and then more significantly, at APL following WWII. His work at DTM was on proximity fuse research. He transferred from DTM to APL during the war and concentrated on radar research and control systems for guided missiles. After the war, he participated in the use of V-2s for upper atmosphere research with James Van Allen's High Altitude Group, developing instrumentation for telemetry and cosmic ray research.

TAPE 1, SIDE 1

1     Childhood; interest in electricity family background

2     Child; first encounter with wireless

3     Radio experience

4     Undergraduate career; secondary education

5     Undergraduate major at case

6     First job; interest in photography; engineering reading, photography

7     Work as metallurgist at first job; reasons for leaving

8     Victoreen instrument company and introduction to electronics

9     X-ray dosimeter; working conditions at Victoreen; responsibilities at Victoreen

10     Contact with astronomers

11     1940 and WWII; Merle Tuve recollections

12     Victoreen and the war; depression work Department of Terrestrial Magnetism (DTM)

13     Job interview with Tuve recollections

14     DTM work; views of the self-taught man work on proximity fuse; DTM ethos

15     DTM people; APS meetings

TAPE 1, SIDE 2

15     Naval contact at DTM; views of Ph. D.s

16     Blending of practical & theoretical at DTM; proximity fuse work

17     Mindlin and the proximity fuse

18     How the fuse works; testing the proximity fuse

19     Testing the proximity fuse design; testing of the proximity fuse

20     Location of APL testing proximity fuse designs at Parris Island location of APL

21     Testing proximity fuses

22     New Mexico testing Dr. E. Cook

23     Allen Hynek, Hynek adventure

24     Van Allen and Navy proximity fuse battery

25     DTM to APL; DTM and the war

26     APL's location

27     Radar work; Wilmotle

28     Attitudes: hardware vs. management

TAPE 2, SIDE 1

29     Rockets at APL

30     APL - Wilburn Goss & ramjets Inyokern NBS experience

31     NBS - missiles

32     APL - organization Missile - gyrostabilization

33     Missile development - servos

34     APL and end of war

35     Possible folding of APL; life at Kodak with fuses

36     Return to APL

37     Return to APL and rocket high altitude work; origin of upper air work

38     Henry Porter

39     Porter's decision to work with Van Allen; interest in rocketry; rocket experience

40     Van Allen group Geiger counters

41     Role in experiment design first flight plans; role in launching a V-2

42     White Sands; APL at White Sands; Integrating instruments

43     Instrumentation on first flight

TAPE 2, SIDE 2

44     Telemetering data; relations with Van Allen; role as engineer; publishing with Van Allen

45     Publishing in science; interest in cosmic rays; interest in work

46     Interest and understanding (actually love for) the hardware

47     Origin of Bumblebee term; documentation

48     Inter-group competition

49     Perceptions of military and the rockets; relation with military & NRL telemetry

50     Van Allen's working style with his team

51     Looking at pictures

53     Recovery teams; J.J. Hopfield

54     Hopfield continued

55     Spectrograph Sun-seeker

56     More on Hopfield and Sun-seeker; contact with NRL; work schedule

57     White Sands; trips out; Holliday's cameras; high altitude research at APL

58     Why rocket work ended at APL; ending of rockets at APL

59     Contact with Jesse Greenstein; topics for next interview

TAPE 3, SIDE 1

59     Public relations

61     Dealings with press; feeling about rocket work

Friedman, Herbert. Date: June 7, 1983. Interviewer: Martin Harwit. Auspices: SAOHP. Length: 1.5 hrs.; 20 pp. Use restriction: Public.

Covers selected aspects of Friedman's (b. June 21, 1916) work at NRL. He served as Head of the Electron Optics Branch from 1943 to 1958 and then from 1958 on as Superintendent of the Space Science Division. This interview traces the development of upper air research at NRL through IGY, and then outlines subsequent attempts at international cooperation in geophysical research. The latter discussion serves as the basis to explore the role of 'big' science, and its relationship to individual and 'little' science.

TAPE 1, SIDE 1

1-9     Work at NRL in the Atmosphere Division; participation in IGY

1     Acquisition of V-2; involvement with solar and stellar studies in ultraviolet and X-rays region

2     Interest in IGY; Hulbert, Taylor, Breit, Tuve; development of technique for pulse sounding of the ionosphere; Parsons, Tousey

3     First answers to the question of how the sun controls the ionosphere; nature of flare spectrum

4     IGY: Vanguard satellites; the long-range geophysical behavior of the sun; Van Allen

5     Politics of establishing Vanguard at NRL; Chapman, Berkner; the proposal

6     Philosophy behind IGY; coordinating global studies

7     Effect of IGY; scientific and educational

8     Creation of NASA; discovery of Van Allen Belts; Sputnik

9     Friedman's work studying X-rays from the sun; proposal for an eclipse study of the sun; Bennett at ONR

9-17     Projects following IGY

10     Satellites to study the magnetosphere

TAPE 1, SIDE 2

11     Spontaneity and long term planning in research

12     Research at a large organization like NASA; NASA's Spartan program

13     Conceiving a program on a national basis; specific interdisciplinary aspects; Tommy Gold

14     Coordination between scientists; measurement of the total angular momentum of the atmosphere

15     Necessity to combine seismology and satellite research; solar probe, NRAO

16     Commonality in the instrumentation between disciplines; example of satellite oceanography

17-20     Role of the individual in science

17     International and individual efforts in science; the role of organization (at NASA)

18     Importance of individual, creative efforts

19     Future possibilities in science; the structure of large programs

20     Importance of a balance between individual and large-scale scientific efforts

Friedman, Herbert. Date: September 2, 1983. Interviewer: David H. DeVorkin. Auspices: SAOHP. Length: 4.3 hrs.; 70 pp. Use restriction: Permission required to quote, cite or reproduce.

Analyzes in detail Friedman's (b. June 21, 1916) X-ray research at NRL in the 1940s and 1950s, as well as his atomic bomb research. After a brief discussion of family background, and his interest in X-rays as a graduate student at Johns Hopkins (PhD, 1940, physics), Friedman relates his early years at NRL (1941-2), leading up to the establishment of the Electron Optics Branch, which he headed from 1943 to 1958. For this period he elaborates on the organizational, instrumentational and scientific aspects of his research on solar and galactic X-rays.

TAPE 1, SIDE 1

1     Clipping file at NRL

1-2     Friedman's correspondence and working files

2     Friedman's lab notebooks

2-3     Switch from an art major to physics at Brooklyn College

3     Father's occupation as art dealer; siblings

3-4     Contact with artists as a youth

4-5     Meeting Kurrelmeyer and switching to physics major

5     Physics courses at Brooklyn College

5-6     Parents' attitude toward physics

6     Initial attempts to find work after college

6-7     Decision to go to Johns Hopkins; Kurrelmeyer's influence

7-13     Graduate work at Johns Hopkins

7-8     James Frank

8-9     R.W. Wood

9-10     Thesis work with Joyce Bearden

10-11     Thesis work: fine structure of X-ray absorption edges

11-12     Designing a weak X-ray detector

11-13     Using detector to determine structure of absorption edge for various elements, and emission lines

13-15     Attempt to find a job and anti-Semitism

13-14     Bell Labs

TAPE 1, SIDE 2

14-15     Rustless Iron and Steel

15     MIT

15     Fund's influence in finding a job at NRL

15-70     Career at NRL

15     NRL beginning in 1941

16     Feelings about working for the military

16-17     Work atmosphere in metallurgy department

17-18     Radiography work with Herman Kaiser

18-20     Orienting and cutting quartz for oscillator plates needed for the war effort

20-21     Award of first Navy Distinguished Civilian Service Medal for solution of quartz problem

21     Solution of military problems; pigments, silver plating

21-22     Absence of classification of research

22-23     Background to the establishment of the Electron Optics Branch; role of Hulburt

23-24     Head of electron optics branch

24-25     Building a staff

25-26     Patent dispute over X-ray analysis of platings

TAPE 2, SIDE 1

26     Developing fuel gauges for airplanes

26-27     Development of halogen-type counters

28-29     Initial awareness of V-2s in 1945; discussions at NRL, andconcurrent involvement in atomic bomb program

29     Rocketsonde Section: initial organization and discussion of research objectives

29-30     Competition between Rocketsonde group and Optics group

30-31     Designing a spectrograph; use of lithium fluoride beads

31-32     Recording data: photography and recovery versus photoelectric an telemetry

33-36     Involvement in atomic bomb program after WWII; developing monitoring systems for Russian tests

33-35     Project Rainbarrel

36     First Russian bomb test

36-37     Transition from atomic bomb research to rocketsonde research

37-38     1949 rocket flight

TAPE 2, SIDE 2

38-39     Building a research team

38-39     Sam Lichtman and telemetry

39     T. Byram

39-40     Design of counters for 1949 flight

40-41     Scientific objectives of 1949 flight

41-42     Burnight; alleged detection of solar X-rays

42-43     Tousey X-ray detector

43     Comparison of own detector to detectors of other researchers

43-44     Own contribution (as opposed to other team members) to 1949 X-ray experiment eness [!] of military potential of research

TAPE 3, SIDE 1

52-54     Detecting galactic X-ray; 1957 experiment

54-55     Detaching galactic X-rays; later experimental design of counters

55-57     Giacconi's X-ray group, detection of galactic X-rays

57-58     Determination of Crab and Scorpius X-ray sources; relation to Giacconi group's discovery

58-59     SOLRAD

59-60     Awareness of military potential of research

60-61     Developing a model of the ionosphere

61-62     Switching from a combination of research work (hydrogen bomb, alloys, space science) to space only

62-63     1949 paper on solar X-rays; reception of rocket work by physicists and astronomers

63     Role of military in rocket research

63-64     Interest of other researchers in rocket work (e.g. Menzel, Goldberg, Spitzer): Spitzer's early interest in a space telescope

TAPE 3, SIDE 2

64-65     Von Braun and Stuhlinger

65-66     Planning a large X-ray detector with Stuhlinger

66     Proposed X-ray mirror in a balloon

66-67     Reconnaissance work for nuclear testing

67-68     Potential for 1

68-70     Problems with flights

Frier, Phyllis. Date: March 1, 1984. Interviewer: David DeVorkin. Length: .75 hrs.; 17 pp. Auspices: SAOHP. Use restriction: Permission required to quote, cite or reproduce.

Frier relates her family background, schooling and teachers. Describes employment with Naval Ordnance; graduate school; first knowledge of rocket work; interest in cosmic ray work; discovery of heavy particles; studying solar particles; IGY; Explorer; effect of the cosmic ray plateau. Discusses Bernard Peters; Frank Oppenheimer; Jack Winkler; Ed New; John Naugle; Frank MacDonald and Van Allen.

TAPE 1, SIDE 1

1-3     Early influences; family background and schooling; getting into science

1     Parents and high school

2     Teachers; TA position; employment with Naval Ordnance

3     Marriage; graduate school; first knowledge of rocket work

4-6     First jobs

4     Interest in cosmic ray work

5     Work for Ed Lofgren on the Leitz microscope (1947)

6     Two flights in 1948

7-9     Discovery of heavy particles

7     Knowledge of dD/dX; Bernard Peters

8     How Frier felt discovering them; why no one else saw them first

9     Work with alpha's Bethe; finding new things in science

10-11     Frank Oppenheimer's resignation; staff and advisors

12-15     Studying solar particles

12     Solar helium and solar protons; joint paper with Bill Weber explaining energetic solar particles in terms of an exponential rigidity spectrum

13     Solar flares; working with Jack Winckler and Ed New

14     Frier's contributions to science; John Naugle at NASA; Frank MacDonald

15     Taking data and relating it to bigger problems; change of interests

16-17     Knowledge of Van Allen and rocket work

16     IGY and Explorer

17     Effect of the cosmic ray plateau

Frosch, Robert. Dates: July 10; July 23; August 19; September 15; and October 6, 1981. Interviewer: David H. DeVorkin. Auspices: SAOHP. Length: 15.5 hrs.; 255 pp. Use restriction: Not established.

Reviews Frosch's (b. May 22, 1928) education at Columbia University (PhD, 1952, theoretical physics) and, in detail, his varied career as a physicist and a science manager, beginning with his work as a research scientist at Hudson Laboratory (1951-3) and then as Asst. Director and Director of the Theoretical Division (1953-63). In 1963 he became Director of Nuclear Test Detection, Advance Research Project Agency, Office of the Secretary of Defense; in 1966 he was appointed Assistant Secretary of the Navy, Research and Development; from 1973 he served as Assistant Executive Director in the U.N. Environmental Programme; from 1975 he served as Associate Director of Woods Hole Oceanographic Institute; and from 1977 to 1980 he served as Administrator of NASA.

TAPE 1, SIDE 1

1-6     Early life and family

1     Mother and father

2-3     Father's medical practice

2     Family interest

2     Religious background and philosophy

3     Family career interest

3     Trips to the American Museum of Natural History and Planetarium

3-4     Early schooling in New York Public Schools - P.S. 28

4     Libraries

4-5     Choice of high school

5     Structure of DeWitt Clinton H.S. - honor school

5-6     Competition in school

6     Life during the Depression and mother's illness

6-21     College Years at Columbia University

6     High school graduation, 1944 January

7     One semester hiatus taking advanced courses before college

7-8     Reading in physics and astronomy

8     Robert von Nardoff - faculty advisor

8-9     Liberal arts requirements

9-10     First knowledge of A-bomb

10     The basement of the physics building

10-11     Reaction to bomb

11     Choice of Columbia for graduate school in physics

TAPE 1, SIDE 2

12     Theoretical physics department

12-13     Course work

13     Lack of ability in hands-on experimentation

14     Search for a thesis topic

14-15     Appointment with I.I. Rabi

15     Theoretical work with Henry Foley

15     Beginning study in matrix mechanics

15-16     Rabi's intuition

16     Rabi's meson argument

16-17     Hyperfine structure in quantum

17     Mode of attach on hyperfine structure

17     Charles Townes' microwave experiments required Frosh's theory

17-19     PhD orals in Spring 1951

18     Methodology, continued

18     Interim job as dissertation was being revised

19     First knowledge of Hudson Labs

19-20     Marriage in June 1949

19-20     Wife's aid to Frosch's research

20-21     Staff at Hudson Labs

21     Job interview

TAPE 2, SIDE 1

21-23     The origin of Hudson Labs

21     Submarine warfare

21     Association with Columbia

22     Choice of location

22     Development of lab and its mission in under-water acoustics

23     Control from ONR

23     The Diving Duck

23-29     First projects

23-24     Memoir 27

24     Modelling the ocean floor

24-25     Development of computation team

25-26     Sable Island problem

26     Time pressure on research

26-27     Contact with Bell Labs, the Navy and Woods Hole

27     General feeling about work

28-29     Early theoretical expectations

29     Use of antenna arrays and array theory

29     General community of workers and their publications

29-43     Assistant Director of Hudson, 1953

30     Contact with experimentation

30-31     San Juan field station

31-32     The problems of management and budget

32-33     PERT

TAPE 2, SIDE 2

33     Critical path problems in readying for a cruise

33-34     Review of Hudson top personnel

34     Possibility of becoming director

34-35     Self-view as not administrative type

35     Managerial atmosphere at Hudson; anecdote on Pegram's development of Manhattan Project

35-37     Programming for cruises

38-40     Digression to discuss family influences

38     Music lessons

38-39     Interest in the flute

39-40     Feeling that piano "put the machine in the middle" and separated the player from the music: analogy with philosophy of doing science

40-44     Thoughts about management and administration

41     Intended role at ARPA

42     The staff theorem

42-43     Problem of over-centralization

43     Project management

43     Perceptions of management

44-74     Directorship of Hudson Labs

44     Policy and structure

TAPE 3, SIDE 1

44-47     Study of low frequency coherency in the ocean

45     Coherency as a design parameter

45-46     Experimentation on a large scale

46     Sound source for test

47     Results of experimentation

48-51     Project Medea, 1955

48     Funding as block-program

49     Underwater sound in the Norwegian Sea

49     Use of five ships

50-51     Communications constraints

51     Training for Project Artemis

51-60     Project Artemis, 1955-1960s

51     Plan for active sonar system was a precursor

52-53     NAS and ONR task groups on undersea warfare

53     Plan for larger detection ranges

53-54     "An Ocean an Hour" and he "Navy Acre"

54     Magnetostrictive scroll sound sources

55     Hudson Labs-designed hydrophones

TAPE 3, SIDE 2

56     Required equipment

56-57     Angus Island

57-58     Fresh water problems

58     Problems with data processing

59     Optical processing

59-60     Fate of Artemis and Hudson Labs

61     Reaction to Project Artemis

62-63     Ivan Tolstoy's theoretical work, and life

63-66     Relations with Columbia University

63-64     Interest in direct university contact

64     University overhead

64-65     Comparison with JPL/CALTECH relationship

65     relations with Physics Department

65-66     Plans to leave Hudson for ARPA

66     University oversight responsibilities

66-69     Communications responsibilities

68     Side-looking sonar

68     Navigation problems

TAPE 4, SIDE 1

69-70     Decision to join ARPA

69     Director of nuclear test detection

69-70     Limited Test Ban Treaty

70     National policy

70     Successor at Hudson

71-74     Decision to close Hudson several years later

71-72     Basic and applied research

72     Pure oceanography

72     Hudson of less us to the Navy

73-74     Influence of Columbia politics

74-135     ARPA

74     Funding source and reporting structure

74-75     No block funding - contact with Congress

75-76     Structure

75    PL-313 positions for scientists

75     Problems with special projects in Thailand

75-80     Office of Nuclear Test Detection

76     Responsibility to generate reconnaissance ability for nuclear explosions

76     No contact with space portion of Vela Hillman Dickson was responsible for Vela operations

76-77     Vela

77     Argus

77-78     Vela observations of gamma ray sources

78     Ue of Vela in arrays

78     Detection of celestial gamma ray burst

78-79     Scientists were the sources of the detectors

79     ARPA associates

79-88     LASA (Large Area Seismic Array)

80     Contact with Frank Press

80     State of technology

81     Press role in instrumentation; revolution in seismology

TAPE 4, SIDE 2

82     Seismology group at ARPA

83     Technical problems

83     Computer operation

84     Reaction of classic seismologists

84     Technical expertise within ARPA

84-85     ARPA's support of cosmology

85     Shielding from lightning

86     ARPA run as a "small business"

87     Short lines of communication

87-88     Commentary on organization of NASA

88     Success of LASA

88-96     Deputy Director of ARPA

88-89     On-site inspection

89     Visual reconnaissance and Landsat

90     Proposal for on-site inspection research

90     Operations within ARPA and circular memoranda

91     Testimony before the Joint Chiefs of Staff

91-92     University consultants - JASON

92     Link with IDA

93     Members of JASON

94     Counter insurgency program

94     Economic development program

94-95     Computer program

95     Time sharing

95-96     ARPA's mission

TAPE 5, SIDE 1

96-97     Digression to discuss origin of Hudson Labs

97-112     Discussion of documents found in file

97-98     "Ballad of the Certification Review"

97     Shuttle decisions

98-99     Discussion of problems with NASA Shuttle flight certification and qualification

99     Differences between manned and unmanned space flight engineering

100-102     Shuttle tiles

100     Balancing risks

100-101     Quantitative risk assessment

102     Possible alternatives to the tiles

102-103     Interpretation of the Ballad

103-104     Problems of Shuttle flight simulation at Mach 25

104     Outside experts: "A tree full of owls"

104     Rumor mills

105-106     Reaction of Shuttle manages to outside review

106-107     Engine testing procedures

106     Computerized engine control

106     Stevenson's committee

107     The Ballad continued

107-109     The tiles and the "CLOT" test

TAPE 5, SIDE 2

110     Strain-isolation pad

110-111     Matching hull to tile

111-112     Distribution of the ballad

112-114     Contacts with media regarding tiles and engines

113     Competent media

114-119     Congressional review committees

114-115     Possible effects of press accounts

115-116     Boland's committee

116     Proxmire Committee

117     Politics

118     Budget process in Congress

119-121     Relations with OMB and contact with President Carter

120     Gamma ray observatory and VOIR

121-123     Competing NASA missions

121-122     The Centaur

122     Orbit calculations for Galileo

122-123     Space Telescope vs Galileo

TAPE 6, SIDE 1

123-126     Solar Electric Propulsion System (SEPS)

123     Competing projects

123-124     Decision Process and meeting with President in Spring, 1980

124-125     Decision Process on Shuttle; discussions with President

125     Need for closer White House contact

126-127     White House meeting on VOIR and GRO

126     Choice of VOIR

127-129     Initiation of SEPS (Spring 1979)

127     President's interest in black holes

127     GRO and Halley priorities

127-128     Halley/Temple II plans

129-132     Opinion from scientific community regarding budget

129     Use of expendable launch vehicles as alternative to Shuttle

129-130     Budgetary process and political criteria for projects

130     The role of science

130-131     Shuttle as a benefit to the scientific budget

131     Political-technical tradeoff

132-135     Space Policy, 1977-1978

132     Harrison Schmitt's interest

132-133     Long range plans

133     OMB reaction

133-134     Frank Press' interest in policy paper

134     Dave Williamson's role

TAPE 6, SIDE 2

136     Reasons for leaving ARPA

136     Interview with Paul Nitze, Secretary of the Navy

137     Predecessor at Navy post, Secretary of Navy

137-69     Assistant Secretary of the Navy

137     History of Assistant Secretary of Navy

137     Staff for Assistant Secretary of Navy

138     Staff education

138     Organizational strategy

138-139     Navy R and D financial reporting

139     ONR relationships

139     Navy in space

140     NRL - NASA-ARPA relationship

141     Remote sensing

141-142     Reconnaissance program and R and D

142     Reconnaissance satellite source information and availability

143     Reconnaissance satellites - NRL

143     SOLRAD: inter-service rivalry in space

144     NRL and inter-service rivalry in space

145     SOLRAD

145-146     Budgets and data collection

146     Navy satellites communication

146-147     Navy bureaucracies

147     Navy HF communication system

147-148     Navy satellites

148     Military satellite use in Vietnam

148     Transit and Omega: navigation satellites

149     Releasing transit receiver for commercial satellite

150     Using classified knowledge

TAPE 7, SIDE 1

150     Navy classification procedure

150-151     The classified scientific community

151     Classification in underwater sound research

151-152     Science in ONR

152-153     Uses of internal scientific experts

153     Mansfield Amendment

153-154     Legitimating research with the Mansfield Amendment

154-155     Deciding which projects were relevant

155     Mansfield relevancy and the laser

155-156     Why laser research

156     Why potatoes turn brown and why find out why

156-157     Managing technology

157     Signal-noise ratio in technology management

157     Integrating research progress

157-158     Optimizing systems, not parts or systems

158     Law of Sea in Navy

158-159     Law of Sea - space law

159     Why Space Law Treaty worthless

159-160     Fishery sonar

160     Pure versus basis research

161     Pure vs basic closing

161     Navy Radiological Lab in San Francisco

162     Politics of lab closings

162     Budget defenses

162-163     Budget

163     Writing techniques

164     Procurement talk

164-165     R and D procurement problems

TAPE 7, SIDE 2

165     Discussion of R and D procurement techniques

165     The importance of R and D for good business

166     General Motors: isolation of R and D

166-167     Brief stint standing in as Secretary of the Navy

166     Navy judicial system

167     Judge Advocate General office

167-170     Decision to leave Navy

167     Service through two administrations

168     Interest in United Nations

168-169     Member of US exchange delegation on oceanography

169     Bob White suggested UN environment job

169-177     United Nations Environment Programme, 1972

170     Structure of programme

170     Stationed in Nairobi

171     Responsibilities - program planning

172     "The World's Conscience" re: global environment

172     Relevant issue: economic development

172-173     Structure of the UN - Parliamentary thinking

173     Colleagues

174     Dissatisfaction with program

175     Decision to leave UN

175-176     Interest in Woods Hole

176-177     Accomplishment

176     The Mediterranean issue

177-178     Problems of nuclear waste

178-191     Woods Hole: Associate Director for Applied Oceanography

178     Marine policy; ocean engineering studies

179     Interdisciplinary efforts in oceanography

179     Radioactive waste proposal

179-180     Contact with JPL

180-183     Manned versus unmanned submersibles and other issues

181     The importance of the presence of man in exploration

182     Acceptance of remote sensing

182     Need for general synoptic data

182-183     NASA inability to involve scientific users in the development of remote sensing

183-187     NASA interface problems between users and provides

184     "In the development business, the customer is always wrong"

184     Reception of NASA equipment at Woods Hole

185     Grantsmanship

186     Peer review and the Mansfield Amendment

186     Accountability

186-187     Reflection on major problems in future of NASA

188-189     Search for new Woods Hole Director

188     Role of internal politics

189     Search for external candidate

189     Conversations with Frank Press

TAPE 1, SIDE 1

190     Frank Press

190     Meetings with Press on going to Washington

191     Early Washington consulting for OSTR

191-255     NASA Administrator

191     Appointment to NASA

192     First meeting with Carter

192-193     Carter, DoD and Shuttle

193     Carter approves Frosch, what to do about Shuttle

193-194     Shuttle planning and projected use

194     OMB and Shuttle budget

194-195     Initial consulting period at NASA: Shuttle project

195     Appointment mechanics

196     More on meeting with Carter

196     More about period as consultant before confirmation

197-203     Reasons for Frosh's reorganization

197     Administration suggestion

198     Applications as technology, not marketing

198-199     Closing center - Huntsville

199     Fears of militarizing NASA

199-200     Organizing the Reorganization

200     Reorganization options

200-201     Aviation centers

201     Center closing (options) and OMB

201-202     Wallops Center

202     Wallops and sounding rockets

202     Dryden Center

203     Government manpower

TAPE 1, SIDE 2

204     NASA HQ reorganization

204     NASA equal opportunity; more HQ changes

205     Creating role of Chief Scientists

205-206     Restructuring advisory committees

206     Goddard Institution of Space Science

206-207     NASA - university relations

207-210     Reorganization

208     Reorganization and the centers

209     Reorganization, Lovelace, and centers

209     Decision making structure

209-210     Freeing the administration

210     Communications with Center

210-211     Io's volcanoes; Center visits

211     Award ceremonies at the Centers

211-212     Centers visits

212     Value of Center visits

213     Dealing with NASA people

213-214     Huntsville, Space Telescope

214     Space Telescope Staff

215-218     Confirmation hearing

215-216     Mission to Mars

216     Confirmation hearing

217     Planning, NASA long-range goals

TAPE 2, SIDE 1

217-218     Confirmation hearings

218     Relations in NASA

218-219     Agency's mission or lack thereof

219     Organizational philosophy

219     Agency goals in existence

219     Space Telescope

220     Goals

220-221     Existing missions and accomplishments

221     Carter administration goals in space

221-222     Space policy problem

222     OMB and space policy; agenda from Carter administration

222-223     Space policy effects; none

223     Lyndon B. Johnson and space

224     Learning about Shuttle

224-225     1979 budget, Shuttle, JOP, ST

225     Dealing with OMB

225-226     More OMB

226     Negotiation with OMB

227     Shuttle Telescope, Shuttle

227-228     Shuttle and presidential navigation knowledge

228     Number of orbiters; why five?

228     Political budget realities confront Shuttle

229     Air Force views of NASA

230     Vandenburg; Titan versus Shuttle

231     USAF use of Shuttle; agreement

232     More shuttle USAF demand scenarios

232     IU problems

233     Enterprise flight test

TAPE 2, SIDE 2

233-234     IUS problems

234-235     Option for fifth Orbiter

235     Expendable launch vehicles

235-236     Manned vs. unmanned flights; Shuttle

236     Shuttle test flights

236-237     NASA image; Apollo fire

238     Selling exploration

238     Work in space the smaller, less expensive programs

254-255     Politics and big projects (JOP)

Rev. 10/15/95